In Search of Catholic School Excellence

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Hi folks, welcome back to another episode I'm joined again by my fearless friend, Becky Wong. Hi, everyone. This week we're talking about dreaming bigger. We wanna think about what our schools can do. We probably spend a lot of time either putting out fires or just trying to stay afloat.

And we never really take the time to think about what if, and maybe what if is not that far down the road. So today we're gonna talk about dreaming bigger, and thinking about what crazy dream do you have at your school. What's like a really big one that seems audacious, and what's one that's kind of like somewhat attainable, maybe we just need a couple steps.

So let's see. Let's start off with what's the craziest dream you've ever had for a school, Becky? Oh. I don't feel like anybody's ever asked me about a crazy dream, besides you. In a school environment sometimes we don't want crazy, but if we think about it, why don't we dream bigger or crazy instead of just having the same old?

And in like past episodes, we talked about like how do we become unique? How do we differentiate ourselves from other schools? And how do we just keep things fresh, keep teachers engaged, keep our students engaged? Well, I always feel like my big dreams aren't that big, or it could be expensive, like creating a maker space.

It's always about creating space and opportunity for students. How 'bout you? What d- what's your big dream? Well, the, If I think back to my teaching days and not not think about something current the two things, like the one like super, super crazy one whereas I had worked out the plan.

I think we talked about this in a previous episode maybe, but I had worked out a plan for taking tuition money f- having students add like a $50 to their tuition every year. Mm-hmm. And we would invest that for them over the nine years they're at our school, and when they graduated, assuming they were there for the nine years and they were going on to a Catholic school- Mm-hmm

we would take the invested some of that and apply it as a scholarship to their high school. Oh ... and so we'd worked out this whole plan, like how much- Yeah ... money could you grow- Mm-hmm ... in nine years and do something like that. So kind of incentivize students to be still around, but also like we want them to go to Catholic schools.

So nobody ever took me up on that because- ... obviously you start talking about money, it gets crazy. Right ... but there's definitely something there. The small version of that was, as we've also talked about in probably many episodes, I used to l- I still do love playing music every day. Mm-hmm. And, Oh, great

so I'd be playing music in class all the time, and we would sing Songs the songs of the week or the songs that related to the gospel of the day. Just any, any excuse to sing in the class. So the small dream that I had was to get a student band together to be the band at mass. Oh, yes.

That's- And, I feel like that's something they're always missing. There's always a dream of, like, student choir at every mass, yeah. And just take it a step further 'cause we had kids singing. Mm-hmm. And I went a little... Excuse me. I went a little crazy the one time I got the chance, and of course I probably burned my opportunity.

Cause we had, like, 30 kids performing. It was awesome. Oh, wow. And so we dialed it down and eventually we got to do eighth grade, like, masses and we were the band. But in any case that was a small attainable goal that was a little bit out of reach. It took a little work and took some trust-building amongst the community, but eventually we were able to pull that off and we got to play at Christmastime and- we got to do lots of cool things like that. So I love that idea of just stretching something that is a little bit outside of that reach- Mm-hmm ... But that's attainable and it's within your wheelhouse, something you love, so it's worth chasing. And then those crazy ones are always fun to think about.

And perhaps maybe sometimes even happen. Yeah, so tell me, how did you... What was your first step in just getting started or c- even convincing someone to follow your dream or to just start? Yeah I had a series or I had a habit of dreaming out loud. And so as a young teacher, I would get shot down a lot.

Right. And so as time went on, you got better at saying, "Well, what are they possibly gonna say about this crazy idea?" Mm-hmm. And so I think still the first part is like any brainstorming, before you start poking holes in things, you just gotta get every possible crazy idea on paper, right? We had one famous I'm gonna name drop Vince Weeters again- Yeah

because we were at CUE in Palm Springs one year. Nice. And we sit in the hotel talking, and we just started thinking about how we could change our reading and math programs and, like, really build up something cool from what we had already been started to do. And so in, like, an hour and a half, we had developed this amazing plan, right?

Mm-hmm. That eventually we went home, and we executed. But that first part of just no holds barred, let's just write everything down possible that we think would be cool. And then you can kind of, like, go through the first layer of, well, why would that not work? And then I think the next layer is you know there's naysayers on the faculty, and th- they're- Yeah

good for a reason. They're there to help you realize what's possible. You gotta take it with a grain of salt because people will shoot down things all the time just because it sounds like work. But- Yeah ... If you can think about, well, what would the objection be? Mm-hmm. And that's it.

You can start taking things away. One of the biggest ones that I ever did, actually changed the landscape of our, of my math class was- Mm-hmm ... At that point, we were all working with workbooks. Right. And the cost of the workbooks per year I worked out the number for that, got that number down- Mm-hmm

was less... Or sorry, the cost- That's all right ... of the workbooks was more than if we had switched over to Accelerated Math and used- Oh, wow ... that for our workbook. And I laid out my plan very easy, but I got to, like, what are all the things? Oh, it's gonna cost us money. Mm-hmm. How are we going to take care of this?

Is the ink the toner gonna be worth the cost? You think about all these other things. Oh, right. Mm-hmm. I walked into the meeting with every possible no- Mm-hmm ... already kind of examined. Right. And so my principal was like- Okay, sounds good. Wait, what? Wait,

you said yes? So after like a couple years of getting a whole lot of nos- Mm-hmm ... that was probably the f- maybe not the right order, but the first major yes, and it was just you gotta foresee where this might not work. Right. And that's important, too. It's like sometimes our big dreams, and we always encourage those big dreams, but sometimes those big dreams might not be a good fit for the whole school.

Because one thing you should really look at is, like, what's the school's mission, what's the school's philosophy, and how does that align? And it's not necessarily like, oh, we have a, have like guitar or music every single every single day, every single class just because you like it. Right.

There's gotta be rhyme and reason to it. Of course- Yeah ... That's one thing that's like a given. It's like free. It's awesome. Kids love it. Yeah. Or at least we can encourage kids to sing. But a lot of times, like our big dreams might just be one person's dream, and it's not necessarily good for everyone, yeah. That's true. Might be costly, might be time-consuming But when we do have people speak up, we want to take those into consideration. And I know a lot of times there could be people on staff that like butt heads or like you automatically agree, disagree with that person. Just because it's that person that said it, you're like, "Up.

Walls up." But we have to start by listening and thinking about like, "Oh, wait why don't they like my idea? Maybe it's crazy." especially when we were like first starting teaching in our 20s, we had lots of crazy ideas. Oh, yeah. Well, I think from the administrator standpoint too to, to your point, good or bad idea- Mm-hmm

you have to kind of listen for what's the intent of this, and what can we actually take from it? Because sure, if you have... Let's say at every faculty meeting- Mm-hmm ... I come up with like six new crazy ideas, right? Mm-hmm. And I'm constantly just throwing stuff at the principal. Like, at some point they're just gonna be like, " slow down."

But there must be some reason, there's some thing that we're pointing out. Maybe this version of the idea can't work, but the, the idea is I see a need in this. Mm-hmm. What can we do about it? Then, as a principal, you can say, "I love your enthusiasm, but we need to come up with something that's a little bit more possible or a little more grounded."

Right. It sounds like you want to increase reading proficiency- Right ... at the school. Let's talk about as a faculty, right? So you can get to the gist of something, the, like the key element of it- Mm-hmm ... and then address that. It's, I think it's very important not to always say no. Mm-hmm. I think it's very important not to shut things down always, because that person obviously cares enough to look outside their classroom.

Right. That it's, you want them to keep dreaming even if you can't make all those a possibility. But just look for that little f- that thread that is possible, good or bad, right? And the bad ones, you're trying to look for the like what's the good idea. For the good ones, you're trying to say where what, how do we make this attainable?

Mm-hmm. And does it work for everybody else? It may not work for everybody else, and so you might say, "Okay, that's a great experiment for your classroom. Go ahead." Right. And speaking of the accelerated math thing it eventually became- I did it for my classes Mm-hmm And then it was like, "We should be doing this for every, every class."

And I was like, "Wait, maybe this isn't, like, what every teacher wants." Right. This works really well for me, and I know how to, like, leverage all of these different tools. Right. But then you go and you, like, apply that to a bunch of other people, and it may or may not work. And so you get, like, one teacher who's really into it, loves your- the philosophy of how you do it, and that makes sense, and it doesn't work for somebody else.

So I think that's- it's important to kind of look at what is that main theme, and how can we use that for good? I think the big thing for me, it's like, just ask, yeah. Especially, like something you're investing money and time into it. Ask if teachers want this or they don't want it, and I've seen schools where maybe fourth, seventh, and eighth, they'll use a program. And we set up people's accounts. We're like, "Oh, wait. Why is it fourth, seventh, and eighth?" And they're like, "Oh, yeah, those teachers they have a different style. They rather use something else." I was like, "Oh, that's so awesome."

Instead of blanket K to 8, we're buying whatever. Yeah. It's like so much money wasted. That's, yeah, that's the other side of the spectrum where they've the administration has decided on something or a couple people have decided on something, and it's like- Mm-hmm ... everybody will use this. Mm-hmm.

And that, I think, in some cases, something that might be diocesan-wide or- Mm-hmm ... is really is the bee's knees. Like, yes, you need, like I remember a principal saying, "You have to put something in your grade book, and you have to use email." And I was kind of laughing like, "But of course, like what else would you do?"

Like, so some things you can't argue, but- Right ... Sometimes we make these blanket purchases, and then nobody's using it. Yeah. And that's definitely also not good. It's such a waste of resources and time. But going back to the ask is, To start from the top and ask everyone so that it's not just you.

You're always tossing out the big ideas, and everyone's like, "Oh, man you're making the faculty meeting long." But what if we just asked everyone to share their big dream? Sometimes it's scary to say aloud those big dreams, but if everyone's sharing something, and it ... Big doesn't necessarily mean big.

Like, "Hey, let's get a digital plan book," something simple like that as opposed to everyone's writing it in that that notebook- Notebook ... or whatever. Scratch paper. But just have everyone share, and then we're all in the same place as opposed to, "It's that guy again." Yeah. And- Yeah if it's small like that, then people- Mm-hmm

start to, to practice that muscle of- Yeah ... Let me share things, my ideas, right? Mm-hmm. Or a lot of times people don't even realize, like, "Oh, yeah, that's a great idea. I didn't realize I had that need as well." it's ... Again, just start by asking. Not only do you get all these great ideas and the school's not stagnant and we're just doing the same thing, rinse and repeat every year, we're also getting buy-in from teachers.

And if anything, even ask not just teacher, other staff in the school, students parents, the community. Bring everybody in. And again, it's scary because you'll always get the, "Oh, no, that's terrible. Why are you doing this?" But I always feel like people don't wake up in the morning just to say, "I'm gonna give Mr.

Bowles a hard time today." there's always an objection because there's gotta be something, and we just need to figure out, like, "Oh, wait, why are they objecting to that?" yeah. And like, "Oh, yeah, that's a good point," or it might be something else where they're like, "Hey, why are you spending so much time on this when the, here's all the holes that need to be plugged in?"

Or it could ... If you even think fundraisers, like, we keep doing the same fundraiser over and over. And people are more than happy to put their time and money into it, but what if the fundraiser had a different purpose or a goal something we would like to build, hey, like that maker space. Or that library. Just having a different mindset, I would say, would be ... It's almost eye-opening. It's like, oh, everybody's happy to go to school. Everybody's excited. Yeah if you do come across that dream and you can share it I- Mm-hmm ... I've seen definitely in situations where the principals and schools together have, they've put that dream out there.

It's we're saving for this goal. We really wanna develop this thing." And it might be like a three-year thing, or even sometimes it shows up in the the WCA reports. Like, this is something that we're chasing when it's actually the thing you're g- gonna chase. Mm-hmm. And the s- the families know about it, and you're, you've put that kind of on, on the target board.

Mm-hmm. Well, then that fundraiser for that goal becomes, like, something actually interesting, right? But it's because you've invested the time in- Mm-hmm ... talking to people and listening to the the positives, the negatives and how people might be poking holes in things. Mm-hmm. Then it becomes like, "This is what our community wants", as opposed to- I want a really big sign, and I want my picture on the side of the school because I'm so wonderful." Like, nobody's gonna get behind that. It might be your dream, but that, that doesn't- Right ... affect the families in the way that redoing the science lab might be an opportunity to, like, really dive deeper- Oh, yeah

to their STEM classes, right? Mm-hmm. And so on and so forth. So I think it's, That's so good that you point that out. Really- Picking something that's- that's part of the community, that's a target that they can chase, and making sure that you've talked to enough people to make sure that's actually what you should be chasing.

Yeah, and I think the hardest part about this, it's just saying it aloud and picking something. It's just like, the execution, someone will always be behind it. If anything, the person who thought of it or w- or of course we know someone that can help you, right? We love big dreams. But just pick something, start simple.

It doesn't need to be that $100,000 new science tech STEM lab. Right. More like, "Hey, what's a small step?" Could be like, "Let's just buy microscopes. Let's..." Or digital microscopes. "Let's just start with something." but the point is to start, yeah ... second, talk to the people around you.

See if there could be other big dreams or, like, how we can help. It's funny because a lot of times you just run into people, have conversation, and they end up saying like, "Oh, I know somebody," or, "Hey, we have that," or, "Do you wanna come visit our school, check out their schools?" And say they might have that lab or they might have that library, and you're just like, "Oh, this is what we can work towards."

Mm-hmm. And it's nice because it's visual, and when people can see it, it's easier for them to follow those dreams or to back you up. And you never know, a donor might just come up or say, "Hey, that's a good idea," whether it's like a small donation or big donation. Just to say it aloud so people realize, so that they can help, yeah. Or just someone to talk to. Always get feedback. Yeah. Well I like that idea of j- you gotta start, you gotta name it. Mm-hmm. You gotta tell people. After you've discussed it you tell the world that you're hoping to do this. And maybe you don't necessarily put a a hard timeline on it yet, especially the early part, but s- naming it and then taking the next step whatever that next step might be is show that, shows that- Mm-hmm

you have conviction. I think o- the other side of that is often people will say they're gonna do something, and it's like- Oh ... "The theme of the year is this," and, and- Right ... it never goes anywhere. Yeah. If you really have a dream, then, like, go after it. But try to work towards that dream. It might be a five-year thing.

It might be a three-year thing. It might be a six-month thing. Mm-hmm. It could be something next month, right? It doesn't have to be- a big capital campaign, but- Mm-hmm ... if you're gonna go for something, then you have to stick to that. And f- we talked about this in other episodes don't s- try to stay up with the Joneses.

The... if somebody else has got that- Oh ... cool STEM- For sure ... makerspace or whatever and that fits your community, then yeah, sure go steal some ideas, right? Mm-hmm. But you don't need to start a makerspace because the school down the street did. Right. Right. You don't have to have that program because...

Or, "Oh, no, the, our neighboring school has a Spanish program. We better have a Spanish program." Yeah. It, it doesn't fit your community, have something else, yeah. Create a French program. Have a Chinese pro- yeah. And I... And you point something out really important, is put the timeline out there as opposed to it's, like, ongoing.

Like you said, that theme for the year, it's, like, April. Did we do anything towards that theme for the year? Yeah. It's... Like, put the timeline out there. Like, what's reasonable? Is it, like you said is this something we're doing for the month of May? Is this beginning to end of school year?

Is this a five-year plan, right? So it keeps you on track, it keeps everyone on track, and it sets everyone's expectations, because it's the, "Oh, they say that all the time. They said they're gonna build this, they're gonna do that." All promises but no results. So if you put the timeline out there, it keeps you on track and it reminds you, like, "Hey, this is your dream.

Let's work toward it." Yeah. And if y- if you, once you put that out there you can then say- Mm-hmm ... Is there a faculty member who would be willing to- Mm-hmm ... At least be the the point person on this?" put that out to the families. We're looking- Right ... to put together a committee."

Mm-hmm ... perhaps they wanna do that. But even if you wanna keep it informal, maybe there's a, just, like, a, a coffee after a morning assembly to talk about the topic, right? So it's not an official- Right ... committee, but, like, whoever you know- Whoever can make the the opportunity show up- Mm-hmm ... Or whoever can make that time can show up and share their ideas, right?

So having that unofficial opportunity to spitball these ideas with people- Mm-hmm ... is, I think, so great. And so that's you can move it step forward and kinda let people spin their wheels before you have that next kind of conversation. It's so important not to make it your own personal battle that you're just gonna drag everybody through.

That's not gonna work. Right. So figuring out how you can invest or get some other people to invest their time into that. And like I said, could be informal, could just be a coffee talk here and there. Mm-hmm. It might be more formal when you get a committee and you invite an alum to come and be a part of that or somebody in the community who may have an interesting perspective on that.

If you're talking about building something, maybe you have an architect who's not a parent just to give you a different opinion so on and so forth. So finding those champions of your idea- Mm-hmm ... Can really be helpful. So what are the pitfalls? What do you see as some things where like, "Oh, yeah, let's dream big," 'cause you're that dream big guy.

What are the pitfalls? I think that it's... Especially when you bring something to your faculty, there's often going to be Oh, no," you know- Right ... "I'm already working 10 hours each day. You want me to do an 11th? What else do you want me to do? Does that mean Saturdays?" you can start to get into that area where the staff feels a little bit overwhelmed.

So I think that's one of the things you probably wanna figure out before you bring anything. Mm-hmm. Somewhere between brainstorming and- Mm-hmm ... actually developing a plan, that place in between is where you kind of think about, well who would poke holes in this? And so if you're gonna overrun your faculty, I think that's definitely it.

I think you have to be able to set the goals and, like, milestones, I guess, is a better word. Like- Oh, yes ... what's a s- what's a small win that we could get now, and then- Mm-hmm ... what are the other points that this makes sense? And so if you can- if you try to lift too much at once, it's gonna fail.

Mm-hmm. I mean, I can think of a time where I wanted to do a parish festival and we didn't have one, and I made it happen. Very few people showed up. We didn't make any money. Yeah. Right? Because you're just trying to do things too fast. And so- Yeah ... As a young teacher you learn these things.

And as an administrator you hopefully you're not learning them on the fly. Right? Let your young teachers- Yes ... make those mistakes. Right. I think it's also that you have to really consider the phrase of you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Mm-hmm. If you can get the people involved to think that it's a great idea and it's their idea- Mm-hmm ... then you're probably going to get that done. Whether you be the admin or the person coming up with the idea- Mm-hmm ... you need to make sure that there's enough people that actually believe in it. And it's not just choosing people who are gonna say yes no matter what, because they don't- Right

want to upset you. But, like, they actually, like, "This is something I'm willing to work towards." Right. This is something... Even if it, even if they don't do the job are the people in your community gonna put the idea down- Mm-hmm ... in a casual conversation, or are they gonna be, like, excited to talk about it?

And I think that's- Right ... A lot of stuff that happens in the parking lot, at the supermarket. Yes. Like, the conversations about whatever, those are the ones that you wanna win, too. I mean, you can't control all that, but you wanna make sure that it's not something you're dragging people through.

And I think also just making sure you're not spending too much time or money- Right ... going down the wrong rabbit hole. Yeah, I think communication is huge. Just let people know about the small wins, it's easier for people to buy into. I hate to... I use as an analogy, it's like a, your favorite baseball team.

They're terrible. All of a sudden, oh, few winning streaks in a row. Let's jump on the bandwagon. Right. Have to say, it's it's one of those where whether or not people are invested when they start seeing little wins, it's easier to back your idea and say, "Oh, okay, that seems reasonable. It seems to be happening."

It's kind of like what you said about your festival. It's a great idea. It helps the school. But if no one's backing your idea, no one's gonna show up. So it's the same thing where when you celebrate the small wins, pe- it's easier for people to go, "Oh, okay, they're starting to talk about it." They're, they'll show up for you.

So for our leaders, what's the first step? What's our takeaway? Well, I think there's a... I think it's important to ask. Okay. So ask yourself as an administrator, "What's my small, crazy goal?" Mm-hmm. "And what's my enormous crazy goal?" Mm-hmm. And put those down on paper, put 'em out there, maybe even as part of a faculty meeting share it.

But I think you gotta ask your faculty too. Like- Mm-hmm ... they're the ones on the front lines who are doing the hard work. This crazy idea of beautifying whatever room- Mm-hmm ... may not be as important as, "Hey, we need to help in this area," and so having the time and space to ask them- Mm-hmm

"What is your dreams?" And maybe you do that in your one-on-ones. Hopefully, you're having one-on-ones. Yes. Maybe you're doing that on paper. Maybe you're doing it anonymously. Like, I would take all of that. I would poll the parents for the same thing. I would poll them anonymously, let them fire off and then see who steps forward.

But you wanna ask. You want dreaming to be a part of your culture. Mm-hmm. You gotta ask. Right, and that becomes normal. And in fact if you're the principal or the lead teacher, m- maybe don't toss out your idea and just allow everyone else to share their idea, because out of respect, we're always like, "Oh you're the principal.

Let's just follow your..." Yeah. That's the one we're gonna pick. But let's say that all the teachers share, and whoever... And we all know who the strong teacher, the w- the person who always talks at every faculty meeting is, but just allowing everybody else to speak first or just share their idea.

Again, scary, but if everyone's sharing, you never know. You might find someone s- has the same dream as you, and then we can run with that. Yeah, the, I think there's a cost to the, of the other side of- Mm-hmm ... If you're constantly putting people's down dreams, you're not allowing them to talk about ideas.

Mm-hmm. It's definitely an art on how to help somebody realize that maybe an idea's not a great one. But if you're shooting that down- Yes ... All the time, then you may end up losing somebody who really wants the school to succeed. Right. So you wanna encourage that kind of i- ideas, and then help that person kind of arrive at the place where they can start building plans- Mm-hmm

for those dreams that make a little bit more sense. But don't don't shoot down innovation, and don't shoot down dreaming because that's probably what is going to inject the next little bit of life in your school. Oh, yeah, and it makes school fun. I would say your next faculty meeting, before the end of year, or maybe save it for the beginning of the year, like, ask everyone, "What are your two big dreams?"

Yeah. I think I'm hoping everybody does exit interviews too. Mm-hmm. At the end of the year before they go home, like what's something that we could have done better this year? What's something that we could have tried? What would you like to see going forward? And I think, once again, if you've never asked that question the first time around, it's gonna come back- Mm-hmm

as very kind of weak 'cause people are afraid to really share. Right. But eventually, if you can get them to open up- Mm-hmm ... then you might be able to pick out something. Better to hear it and to try to act on it- Mm-hmm ... rather than trying to work out the the conversations that are happening in the faculty room-

right before you walk in. Yeah. And now sudden it's quiet. Oh, and definitely, and on those one-on-ones, definitely ask, like, what went well. Yeah. Personally in... Well, not personally, but, like, professionally in the classroom, what went well this year for you, for your teacher, and then for the school? Like I love hearing like what we can celebrate.

Anytime we talk to, like, a new school or a new teacher, we're like, "Hey, what's great about your school? What did you like about it? Why do you like to teach here?" just simple things like that. Yeah. So true. So what would your, We've said ask people and maybe pick one goal and- Mm-hmm

take one step. What else... What's your final thought for anybody who's considering, like, I think I really do wanna chase this dream I've had or this dream the faculty's had? Well, my two things are usually scary for me, but get feedback and set up that timeline. Or share that timeline and say, "Hey, I was thinking about having the- trying this out for 10 weeks.

It's the after school program. Let's see if our kids will sign up for it." so have that timeline so that it it holds you accountable. Mm-hmm. And it forces you to, like, take action. You're like, "Oh no, it's almost the end of the school year. H- When is that 10-week program or five-week program gonna happen?"

Mm-hmm. And then to ask for feedback. Like, "Oh, is this the right program? Is this the right thing for our school?" How about you? I would say I, I agree with that 100%. I would say the next thing is build your mini advisory team for this particular project- that you're thinking about. Whether that be something formal or if it really is, like, would you be willing to jump on a Zoom or have a phone call or have a coffee- and maybe just get people together to kind of think about what are some of those pieces that we need to figure out. Maybe they can help with the timeline. Maybe they can po- poke holes in things so that you can address them. Just getting it outside of your head or outside of the faculty room and seeing how many more connections you can make because you never know- Mm-hmm

who might be able to push that forward or who might be able to save you before you make a big mistake. For sure. I'd say ask and just get started. Yep. Just try it. You know- Just try it ... Most things you can pull back on, but if you never try, then you're just gonna be stuck with the same thing, and that's no good.

And going back to our previous podcasts of what makes schools unique this is one of those things. This is a part of the process to make your school unique. Not to make it unique just for the sake of making it unique, but making it more true to you and your population. And don't forget to check out the one on community engagement.

Don't just, Or a lot of times we just, like, look within the room, but just look everywhere else a- and out there. And I think one thing is that I know sometimes it feels like we're all in competition with each other, all the schools are. But when we, I know you and I, we visit a lot of schools, and even within our tech group, we- it's so nice to invite each other to each other's to go to each other's schools- to check out, like, "Oh, that's kind of cool." Like, "You have a 3D printer. How did you get started with that?" And just getting ideas and just I feel like it lowers the barrier of, like, fear. Like, oh, I don't know anything about that, but guess what? My friend at another school can do it, so can we.

Yeah. I love it. All right, so folks, thanks for joining. Becky, thank you for joining and sharing all your ideas. Oh, thank you. Please check our show notes. We're gonna have a plan there so you can start to dream bigger for your school or at least maybe formalize that process a little bit, and we'll see you on the next episode.

Okay, bye. Bye.