In Search of Catholic School Excellence

Thomas Boles: Welcome to In Search of Catholic School Excellence, the show where we spotlight the program's, people, and practices making a real difference in Catholic education today.

If you're a school leader striving to build a community of faith, excellence, and innovation, you've come to the right place.

Each episode brings you ideas that are working, stories that inspire and new possibilities for your school's mission.

Let's explore what's working and what's possible.

Folks, welcome back.

Today I am joined by instead of one of our principal leaders I'm enjoyed by my partner in progress Becky Wong.

And we're here to talk about a little bit different.

We're gonna talk about topic of admissions.

And instead of being able to say, Hey, this one school has done a really good job at this or that, or the other thing, we're kind of compiling a bunch of stories that we've gathered over the years.

So.

Thank you, Becky, for joining us.

Thank you for inviting me.

So this should be a, a pretty easy flow since we, we get together and we talk shop all the time.

But it's fun when we start to think about, you know, one, one topic in particular.

And I think that at this time of year, the schools have kind of set up their own flow and they feel like, okay, we've got our schools set for the whole year.

This is the number of students we're gonna have.

But when you think about it, like you're already just like minutes away from starting that admission cycle, right?

And so, you know, for anybody who's gonna be listening to this, you're probably gearing up for, you know, late of the end of the school year or beginning of the next, sorry, not end of the school year.

You're gearing up for the end of the year or starting new student enrollment.

In January.

So, you know, thinking about these things ahead of time and kind of planning 'em out might be a good, a good idea to discuss now.

So any case, that's where we're at.

So what I want to do first is I wanna just talk about like the series of things that you usually take place.

And, you know, we kind of think of admissions as.

Basically someone finds us, we give 'em an application they fill it out, they send us money, and they're in, and we're done.

And I think some schools really do a great job of this.

And so we want to kind of highlight those things that we found to be best practices.

So when thinking about the process of your admissions, I know that in our local diocese here in San Francisco, a lot of folks have been focusing on the search function.

Like, let me be found.

And you know, if.

If that's the biggest problem that you have, I think then that's wonderful because, you know, getting known on Google or being found in the, you know, local, local papers, local Catholic news, et cetera, I think that's a pretty easy thing.

But I think most people have a bigger problem and that's, you know, you start off with search, you go through that whole mission cycle, then you have the the period where someone actually says, yes, I'm in.

You enroll them.

And then you finally bring 'em into the fold of your family, of, of your school.

And I think there's a lot in there that can be looked at and cycled through and, and really optimized so that you can, you know, have the best impression with your new families and hopefully secure a few more of them.

'Cause we know it's, it's getting harder and harder.

I think this is a, a national thing, not just a local thing where, you know, Catholic schools are, are facing enrollment issues.

So.

I guess I'd like to throw the, the first softball to you, Becky, is you know, when we think about getting found.

And just getting your name out there, I, I think most schools have this idea that nobody knows who they are, right?

Like, we must be number one on Google for, you know, best Catholic schools in whatever town.

And I think that's something they chase.

But chances are most people have found that, especially with, you know, the powers of Google, they found the schools that are local.

And in San Francisco we've got a ton of them, but you know, there might be three or four in a small town or.

You know, 10 or 12 in a slightly larger town for us, you know, they could find 48 schools around here.

And what have you seen great schools do when they're trying to get noticed?

I guess that's our, that's our first question.

Oh yes, definitely.

I would say just start off with this word of mouth.

That's the best way to be found.

A lot of the parents that I've talked to, I've given tours to parents.

I've.

Just from working in Catholic schools for the last 20 years, it just just talking to, you know, teachers, parents the administrators, just getting your name out there, just having a good reputation.

Amazingly enough, I think people still use Yelp where they're like, oh yeah, we just found you on Yelp.

People would just do traditional searches like, Hey, best Catholic school in my area.

So I would say from the front office.

Point of view, start with just typical searches.

Like, Hey, put in your zip code, put in your area, and just do a search.

What comes up?

I would say grade schools.

The website itself, people look at and even do search terms like, best Catholic school in my area.

Best Catholic school in San Francisco.

See what comes up.

See what other schools are doing.

Why are they at the top of, you know, the Google search list And once you get beyond the, just the Google searching a few of my schools have done in the past, you know, pass out flyers advertise, have, check out the signage in front of your school.

Is your school hidden behind trees?

You know, just really basic things.

I know one of my schools put a banner on the overpass or bridge so that, you know, cars driving by.

So much traffic there and say, Hey, open the enrollment, or, you know, open house.

Just have plenty of signage.

Bright, visible.

No, I, I think that's good.

I think you, you raised up two points.

One you know, are people talking about you and who's talking about you and what are they saying?

So that's good.

Figure out that, and also, you know, can you be, can you be found?

Right?

And so putting that most in more places, I remember back in the day of going to movie theaters when people actually did that.

You know, on the screen beforehand were all the ads, you know, go get some popcorn.

Go check out this doctor office.

And then there was like.

Come to our school.

And I was blown away by the fact that one of our local schools here was advertising at the movie theater in their neighborhood.

And I was like, that's genius.

You know, probably a fixed cost that you can plan for.

Maybe even somebody would, would budget for it.

But that's a great way to get your name there.

Now maybe folks aren't gonna the movies, but whatever's the, the newer version of that.

Right.

And so that could be, you know.

Our people on, on Facebook.

I suppose you could be posting ads there.

The banner idea or the the billboard idea outside.

You know, where, where are the people that would be coming to our school or should be coming to our school gonna see us.

And you brought up a good point.

As much as I love movie theater experiences hopefully they're doing okay.

But like one of my schools advertised at the mall, so digital signage in digital, so good.

And, you know, the social media, you know, does the school have something beyond a Facebook page, Instagram, any of those?

I don't know.

Even TikTok, just get it out there.

Yeah.

Free advertisement, right?

Well, yeah.

My wife, when she was principal, she used to you know, she had the, the cards, the postcards for the school, and of course she'd always have some on her, but she would find pro prospective students at Costco.

Where she would see a young kid who was like, just about that age and she would, you know, just walk over to their family like, Hey, you know, I think you would be a, a great fit for our school.

And then granted her school was, you know, very unique.

Had a certain kind of tuition free situation.

So there was a certain, you know, demographic.

Type of kid that, you know, they were looking for to, to help out.

And so, you know, that helped with narrowing the bridge.

'cause you're not just gonna walk up to every kid at Costco.

So like, we're, we're not advocating for that.

That you just sit there and you like stalk people.

But it is, it's a great idea that you don't know where, that, you don't know necessarily where you're gonna find those kids, but you can know where.

Families that should be at your school are likely to be hanging out.

And I think that's a, a good thing.

You know, if you're near a mall, then that makes a lot of sense to advertise at the mall.

It makes a lot of sense.

To be able to advertise in, in, in the Costcos or the Safeways or whatever else is, is close by.

I think going back to one of your original points of, you know, who's talking about you and what are they saying, and.

One of the, one of the things I've always stressed with schools that I've talked to about this is, you know, what is your neighborhood?

You know, what does your zip code say about your school?

You know, is the feeling positive?

Is it negative?

Do you have a long history with folks around here?

Are all those business owners part of your world?

And if they're talking about you and they're saying positive things or saying, you know, oh, you know, the kids from St. So and so, they're, they're just so good.

You know, we love to see them walking around.

Or, you know, it's always nice when they pop in the library or you know, those folks who are talking about you.

Probably your best, you know, word of mouth.

Now granted the guy at the corner store is not selling for you, right?

But as a person in the neighborhood, if they're talking, you know, positively about you, if you're showing up in various places being a part of that community, then it's really easy to be found.

It's really easy to get a third party.

Recommendation.

Right?

And so you just want to be aware of who's talking about you, where they're talking about you.

And you know, if you can be in those places in a natural sense, I mean not, you know, you're not gonna go hang outside of the putt in order to try to get to students.

But you know, if you're, if your families are in certain places, then that's a great place to, to be advertising.

So, you know, getting to know your community and, and being a part of that, I think is a big deal, which we could have a whole separate episode about.

Oh yeah, definitely including everyone around you as part of your community.

And something to keep in mind in terms of when you do advertisement or you do signage, make sure your website or your phone number, it's easy to be found.

And then just kind of looking at your website itself.

You know, when someone opens up your website, is there a, a sign up for a tour, apply Now, is there like an easy button or.

Just kind of look and say, is it hard to find?

Like, how do I know?

So just taking a look at your website, just making sure that it's an easy experience.

If someone's gonna take more than three clicks to find the apply now or schedule a tour, they're not gonna do that.

So just kind of looking at the digital side, like some easy things like once they do apply now or once they do, sign up for a open house, like how easy it is, is it for a parent to come in and take a look?

Once you get them in the door, it's awesome because they're interested.

You know, that's like half the battle.

It's just like knowing like, oh, okay.

When, you know, you do have an open house or a school tour, is it easy for parents to find parking?

There's like little things we could do, put signage out.

I know we used to have school tours on Wednesdays.

Like Wednesday morning at nine, is parking available?

Does the parents, do parents have to drive around?

Are they struggling?

It's all part of the experience, like simple things like parking.

Did you reserve parking for them?

Just do little things like even put a name or a sign out.

Like, Hey, you can park in this area.

Just watch out for like street cleaning and whatnot.

You don't want someone to be like, running out in the middle of a tour.

Just look.

Yeah, it's.

It's important to make it easy for them to, you know, to join that if we, you know, we get into step two here, the admissions process.

If they're going through that inquiry spot and they're, you know, they're finding your website, you're making it easy for them to engage with your website, to be able to schedule that tour.

Right.

And then once you get into this next part where.

You know, they, they've scheduled a tour, they're coming.

You've gotta try to make that as easy as possible.

Make it as welcoming as possible.

Can somebody be waiting?

I've seen the best, the best schools that have done this aside from, you know, you've got the parking settled for them, you've got like the welcome sign
out, but like, you also have kids ready to greet them, you know, shining examples of what it means to be a student at your school who's inviting them in.

Right.

And there's a reception, right?

There's some sort of pomp and circumstance to that.

That is, you know, doesn't feel fake.

It feels like, you know, warm and welcoming.

Like this is what it's like to be at our school.

But it's also very formal, right?

It's not like you just, you know, stopped what you're doing for a minute, just so you can run this tour.

Not like you, like, we really want you to come here.

Right?

And it's part of your process.

And again, I really care that it's real.

It's not fake and it's not just, you know, it's just an act where, hey.

Nine o'clock on Wednesdays.

We all have to behave ourselves.

We don't tell our students like behavior, but that's part of your school culture and, and your students are your best.

You know, again, like they're your shining stars where you're like, Hey, do we have eighth graders?

Greet our guests at the door?

You know?

Something I did notice, because we do go to a lot of schools.

Is the front office easy to find?

Like once it Oh yes.

Right?

Is there signage?

Someone agreed at the door, like how did they, where is the front door?

Just ask yourself questions like that.

And well, it's easy for us if, you know, you're the teacher, you're a faculty member, you know where to go.

But if you are someone new, you know, you want the experience to be, you know, pleasant and easy for them so that they're like, oh yeah, it's easy to find, you know, just whether I have one school where the office in the second floor.

I always felt like every time I go there, it's a maze, but you know, the signage is good, then you're like, oh, okay.

I just need to follow the arrows.

I, I see a welcome sign.

And you know, a lot of our schools are like 50, a hundred years.

There's, we can't change where the location of the office are.

What or like move, you know, your front office or your lobby.

But there's definitely ways to invite.

People and make it easy for them.

That's a great, that's also a great opportunity.

You know, John Mahaley always talks about ambassadors versus volunteers.

Mm-hmm.

On those Wednesdays, that's a great time to find that smiley parent who can be at that door, who can welcome them in, you know, make sure that they're getting to the next stop.

Do you have enough kids and parents to get them from that front door to the second floor where they're actually gonna meet everybody?

You know, and you can stage that and you only have to worry about it for, you know, we don't need this kind of.

Entrance wave every day.

We just need it on the days that we have tours.

And so, you know that, that's a big deal.

I think also, you know, for the schools that can't or don't run group tours, if they're running like individualized tours, then that's a great opportunity for that person to be waiting for them, right?

So whoever's running your, your single, single person tour.

That they're waiting for that guest to show up at the front door and making 'em feel like, you know, just like you would at a fancy hotel.

Like the, you know, when they know your name at the desk, you're always, you know, impressed.

Like, oh wait how did you know it was me?

There's like a thousand people checking in, right?

There's, they got little cues that they can pick up on these things.

So.

That's really a really nice touch, but it's so simple like having somebody at the door ready, like you're not annoyed that they've showed up.

You're excited that they've showed up.

I give them a handshake.

And speaking of knowing their names I know.

Kinda on a weird separate note, when I went to pick up my daughter at preschool, I've never met the staff, but as soon as I walked through the door, they knew my name and I was like, oh, I see why this is like a fancy preschool.

They know my name.

They've never met me.

I figured out it's because we type in our code to get in the do and right.

The staff trained to use their first name, but I was like, wow, that was impressive, you know?

Well, that, that's a great example of somebody having a system, right?

Like, let's, let's build a system so that we can make one, this is secure, but two, that we make people feel like they're welcome.

And simple things, or just have name tags ready, whether I would pre-print them.

But you can always have like name tags where parents can just do a sign in.

We used to have a sign in board where people just like sign in, say what grades they're interested in.

And speaking of signing in, look at your lobby or waiting area.

Are, you know, parents just standing around just crowding or.

Does your waiting area have, you know, signage?

I would say a couple of our schools created digital signage.

So it's not necessarily for people who are already in the school, but if you have digital signage you know, your visitors will be looking at it like, oh, here's your chance to show off.

You know, all the great events at your school, this calendar.

Even just show pictures of what's going on in classrooms.

And that's a, a nice preview while, you know, someone's standing around waiting like five or 10 minutes, you know, much better than having awkward conversations with them just, or conversation starter.

Right?

Yeah.

No, that's, that's great.

That's always important to to think through all those moments and not leave things a chance because if you haven't controlled that situation and not, it's not necessarily like.

Being control freaks in this case, but just thinking about what is the process that's going to happen here and how can we make that as easy as possible?

You know, in on schools.

In schools, we hate to have the snowplow parent who's just like trying to make everything easy for their kid.

But like that's what we need to do for our families that are interested in our schools.

We need to make it as easy as possible, eliminate any friction for them wanting to come there.

And I think if you do think about those few moments like.

What's that process gonna be like when they come in?

Well, you know, someone's gonna be early and you know, someone's gonna be late.

What are you doing for the time in between when those people are, are trying to show up?

And I think that's a great one.

Having digital signage up there, having your mission up there, having your student learning expectations up there.

All those things that are so important to what makes your school different, I think are huge.

And I think that's, you know, another point to out outline.

Like, let's make sure we're highlighting what makes us different.

Especially in, in the same diocese where most schools are operating on under the same kind of rules and regulations and curriculums, there's gotta be something that makes your school unique.

And that's more than just.

We're happy people and we're, we love everybody and you know, everyone's happy being here.

We're such a community that should be every school.

So there's gotta be something more.

And those are those opportunities where you can highlight those things without having a formal presentation.

Right.

What you have on your walls, what you have on your digital signages, a great opportunity to show that.

And that's, you know, through that first contact you're able to.

You know, from the moment that they inquire about your school, you have the opportunity to set that tone and control that tone all the way through.

And then I, you know, hopefully your tour is wonderful and you're showing all the great things that your school can do, but you're making sure that.

You're showing the things that make you different while also satisfying all of those little things that they worry about.

You know, what time can I drop my kid off and what time can I pick them up and like, what's lunch like gonna be and will they have friends and you know, will I have friends?

I mean, a lot of people forget as well.

We'll talk a little bit more about this later, but a lot of what you're doing, especially in the K eight world, is you're actually.

Talking not only about the kids' experience, but like, what's the family experience gonna be like?

Are they gonna have, you know, friends in the school that they'll they'll see at fundraisers.

Is there gonna be a community for them to join into?

And so it's not just about will you know Billy or Susie be happy here.

It's like, will the parents be happy here?

And, and that's something you can control from the moment they first inquire.

All the way through to the point where they're, you know, paying tuition.

So, very important to, to, to highlight those things as we go.

Oh yeah, definitely.

And I always think that parents want to help, but they don't know how, where each school is different.

You know, most of our schools include parent participation hours and sometimes it's like.

20, sometimes it's like 40.

And you know, as a new parent you're like, how do I fill those out?

That's like one whole work week, right?

Yeah.

You know, it's like you said, it's an investment.

Investment of your time, investment of your money.

And is this a community that we wanna be part of?

And it's a, it's quite a commitment.

Nine, 10 years.

Is this what I wanna, yeah.

And you're not just creating or just selling it for the student experience, but also for the family experience.

Yeah.

And if you think about this whole process, you're probably, you know, and the initial.

Points are probably happening over, say, a month, right?

Where they've, you know, they've kind of found you, they've made an inquiry, you've brought them on campus.

You kind of do the dance back and forth of, hopefully you're communicating with them, you know, in between the tour and them actually, you know, filling out an application and submitting, you know, their registration payment.

But like, you're.

That dance is still going on.

Now, let's say that's happening.

Let's say someone right now is being invited to whatever, and they're checking out a school and they're gonna check out schools over the next eight months.

You know, you need to be, you need to be able to consider that relationship.

And they're also considering their investment, right?

They're gonna spend these eight months trying to figure out how they're gonna spend the next nine, 10 years.

And you know, for.

Being deliberate and intentional about each one of these steps, I think is so important right there, because there's gonna be a point in between
the tour where they've, they've kind of seen what you've done and they're gonna be deciding about whether or not they should actually apply.

Right.

And even if they do apply, you know, maybe they've applied to 20 schools, like they could spend, you know, $2,000 on an, on an, you know, application fees just to see if the school's gonna be a good fit.

Because if.

You know, they're gonna invest 10 years here.

They've gotta know it's worth their energy, it's worth their money.

It's, you know, gonna be the place where their kid's gonna flourish.

So you really have to be intentional about how you spend that time.

And I, and I think it's, you know, every step of the way, there's opportunities to do that.

If we think about that next piece.

Most folks find this to be like the, it's just the simplest part.

They've got some, you know, PDF on their website.

Maybe you have a forum on their website for their application.

But you know, the schools that have done this really well have made that even, you know, a bigger piece or I should say, have been more intentional about how they do it.

What are some of the ways that you've seen that kind of next piece?

Like they've now seen your school, they have to decide whether or not they want to.

Even apply and then the actual physical application process.

What have you seen that's, that's great.

So usually at the end of the school tour, we should hand them a packet.

Could be a printed copy, something with application inside just.

Keep it simple, you know, make sure that they have a paper copy and also we used to put a QR code so that they can fill it out on their phone.

I would say a digital application would be awesome.

Perfect.

Keep the applications short.

I've noticed that applications.

Have asked everything under the sun, you know, just get the information that you need.

You don't need to know every single detail.

I know that some applications ask for like, parent occupation, your job address, but just get the information that you do need about the student.

You know, address, phone number, make it simple.

And I know a lot of times they're like, Hey, upload a copy of this, but that.

Can become a barrier where like, oh, I don't have my birth, my kid's birth certific.

Birth certificate.

I don't have their baptismal certificate.

Just keep it short.

Once they accepted, then, you know, collect those documents later and do have a digital option.

That way it doesn't stop people from applying or they won't push it off like, oh yeah, I need to go down a city hall.

They get a copy of my kids' birth certificate.

Just keep it simple.

I'm starting notice.

A lot of websites still say, Hey, download this PDF, you know, a parent might download the PDF and write it, but never send it.

And that becomes a barrier.

So as few barriers as possible I would say, you know, after the tour send a list to a parent rep for that grade level, whether it's, you know, kindergarten parent, a current kindergarten parent maybe a sixth grade parent.

I know a lot of students transfer in in sixth grade.

Because, you know, maybe they came from a public school and now they're looking for a middle school.

Have a parent give them a call back and go, oh, hey, you know, nice, welcome.

Any questions about the school?

Let me tell you about, you know, some great events.

Invite them you know, hey, you need help with the application.

Just something you don't have a parent representative.

Then have, you know, whether it's someone from the office, maybe even a teacher, someone.

Available that can reach out.

I would say those are best practices in terms of follow up for a school tour and applications, make it as easy as possible, follow up without pestering, you know, be mindful of people's time.

Yeah, I think that's a great point.

And going back to the, the whole process of actually filling stuff out.

The, you know, a lot of times you turn a parent off or you already make them angry.

Because in the initial inquiry, you've asked 'em a thousand questions, and then when they sign up for the tour, you've asked 'em a thousand questions.

And then when they apply, you've asked 'em a thousand questions.

And then when you register, you ask them a thousand questions.

And most of the time those a thousand questions are the same questions.

So like our systems aren't good enough to retain the information, so it's like, what do I need to get?

This person on a tour, let's just get that basic information.

I get it.

You wanna have some trip wires there so you don't get some crazies coming to your school.

You wanna make sure that people are actually serious, that they're gonna show up.

So you might ask a little bit more.

I totally understand that.

But you don't need, you know, what they got on their you know, kindergarten paint color test.

For that tour, right?

Like you can ask all these wacky questions later, but having the appropriate way to keep that information.

And if your systems are good, they'll fill some paperwork out once and that'll transfer to the next phase.

Like you shouldn't have to ask them a thousand times.

And I would, I would make the point of registration the last step.

That's where you're gonna put all of your trip wires in.

Make, you know, it's gonna be a hefty fee for registration.

You're gonna ask a lot of questions, and if they're not willing to do that last step, then that's fine.

They can go somewhere else.

Totally understood, but if you are going to make all of those other steps before that, so very difficult that they have no interest in coming, then you've really shot yourself in the foot.

Not to mention you don't get the opportunity to practice with all of these new people coming through.

How can we make this better?

How can we make this better?

How can we make this better?

So it's so important to go along that way.

Once.

Once they've gotten that.

I love the idea of having parents involved.

You know, if parents can call and be like, Hey, you know, I was in your exact spot and you can really try to find this kid's transferring in second grade because they're moving from outta state.

Find a parent in your community that moved from outta state.

Have them be the one who calls, would you mind talking to this family for 15 minutes?

That's a great way to do it, right?

Kids transferring in sixth grade.

Let's find parents who have transferred in sixth grade.

What was that like?

Can you please go talk to 'em?

And you don't have to rig the thing, but you obviously, you're gonna choose families that are happy and in that case, they're gonna do the best thing and they're gonna tell the truth, right?

They're gonna be, you know, we love the school because of this.

When we came in sixth grade, it happened like this.

Or we came in kindergarten, it happened like this.

And they're going to be able to do that.

You obviously have to, you know, make sure you get the right people on your team there.

But that's, it's a wonderful way to kind of, ease the pain because there's no monetary incentive, like the way that you or somebody in the office might approach that parent, where you're just gonna hound 'em.

'cause you're like, I know what this student means to our school and therefore I'm gonna act a certain way.

This other parent just wants to help out and is going to be.

Hopefully transparent in their responses and just be like, this is how it went down, or this is what, you know, maybe isn't great, you know, and that, and you want that too, because there's gonna be lumps along the way.

Not every school is perfect.

We all know that, but there're gonna be lumps along the way.

And you want these families to find out that like, you know, this place is like 85% awesome.

These are the lumps, the 15% that's, you know, they're working on and.

And if they're honest about those things, then that they're gonna feel like.

You know what, that 15% I can deal with, if everything is all rosy all the time, they're just gonna feel like they're getting lied to.

And if anything, the Catholic schools should not be the ones who are lying to people.

And that's so true.

And when you do get parents to participate, that's how, you know, people spread the word, word of mouth, you know, and you have buy-in from the families.

And that's the best part is that, you know, like you said, it doesn't have to be all good.

At least, you know, new family coming in know like, oh yeah, the school lunches aren't great.

Right.

At least they won't be like, well, you said that this was great and that was great.

And then once they're in the door they're like, oh, you know, disappointed.

But you know, you set people's expectations.

Would you?

Yeah.

And important not to, to, you know, as you just said, like, you know, once they get in the door, it all the truth comes out.

You want that to be long after they've, you know, come through the door.

And I think this process, I think where a lot of schools miss on this is that they're the parents are buyers, right?

And so, you know.

That has changed.

It used to be that the schools were the buyers where we were choosing which families we were gonna let in.

At this point, you know, you're almost, if they have a a pulse, you're happy to take 'em, you know, in a lot of cases.

So the parents of the buyers, like they're going to be deciding along the way.

Like, you don't get that opportunity.

So if your only touch point is, you know, find my website, fill out my form, come see the tour, and then see you later.

Thanks for your check.

You're not going to have a ton of success with that.

There's gonna be some people who are happy with that and maybe you spend a little bit less energy on them, that's great.

But a lot of folks are gonna be in that period discernment.

And the more you can offer them in terms of, you know, we know this is a big decision, we want you to, you know, think about it, but here are some other things that you can consider.

And the more that you're honest and showing that like, Hey, you know, it's not perfect, but it's, this is who we are, the more likely they're not only gonna sign up.

But they're never gonna leave.

And I think retention is even bigger.

I mean, if you are looking at your school and you're getting, you know, at one point we were getting 30 kindergartners into school, and you've got classes of 30 all the way through.

But if you start to have the 30 becomes 20 after a few years, and then you pick back up in sixth grade, oh you're, there's definitely something going on there.

And, you know, that kind of trend is, is not good.

Not getting into.

You know, making schools better at this point, but we're just talking about this process being, you know, being truthful in that process and walking with them throughout the process and offering
as much support as you can to help them make the right decision, I think is gonna turn out to be a whole lot better than just you know, here's a form, fill it out, if not, see you later.

Right.

And that's, that's where we're at now, I think, I don't think a lot of schools are, are that, you know, simple in their approach, but.

From a parent perspective, I'm sure it feels that way.

Like, oh, that school really wants us there and this school doesn't, you know?

And so I think that's where a lot of folks lose.

And I think a lot of the things that we're talking about are big there, so, you know, going a step further.

So once they've been accepted and they've written that check, yeah.

You know, what happens.

And I, I've seen the best schools, you know, they have, you know, new parent families where they'll, you know.

Invite to a picnic or something like that, or, you know, come to an event.

And so they try to, you know, care for those folks along the way because you really need them.

Imagine they fill out the paperwork in February.

You're not gonna see them until August.

There's a whole lot could go wrong.

There's a whole lot could go wrong.

There's sometimes no communication and then, you know, that's almost even worse, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

It's, it's pretty bad.

So, you know, inviting 'em to events, I mean, I, I laugh 'cause we, you know, the schools have fundraisers, right?

And you'll have, like, you know, almost every, every school has a parish festival.

And so the parish festival might be, you know, a weekend of, of fun.

And those typically happen earlier in the year, so you may not have the opportunity to invite families to that.

But if you did and you were able to give those, that kid a wristband for free rides oh yes, you, you're telling me that that $20 wristband is not worth the a hundred
thousand dollars investment that family's gonna make, it doesn't make sense sometimes when we when we look at what we're holding onto versus what we can do, invite them.

The big fundraiser that you might have later in the year is like some fancy soiree.

Mm-hmm.

Like maybe even the tickets are 200 bucks a person, $400 to get that family to come to the event.

Is not worth the a hundred thousand dollars investment that they're going to make in your school later.

It just, it, you know, people don't understand that.

Like, you sometimes gotta give a little bit in order to get, and even if a bunch of people play the game and take advantage of your, your opportunities, one of those families is going to come in.

You will never give away a hundred thousand dollars worth of stuff.

But you will get one student that will be worth a hundred thousand dollars or more, depending on what your tuition is.

It's just, it's such a small investment, but it's such an important investment in the family if you do it right.

And how awesome is it?

Is it when you get more people coming to your festival or coming to that big chapino or your big you know, black and white type dinner?

You know, it is just so simple.

End of the tour, just say, oh, hey.

In a couple of weeks we have this event coming up, Hey, here's some raffle tickets, or here's some ride tickets or something to invite them
back so that they feel like they're already part of the community, that they're open, you know, just to see what the school's really like.

It's like such a simple, easy idea.

It doesn't really cost too much.

If you think about giving someone a free raffle ticket or just giving, you know, even drink tickets at the, you know, the gala.

You know, just to get them back to your school.

We didn't talk too much about the school tour itself, and there's two schools of thought.

Some people just do like the principal leads the tour and others have students lead tours.

And in my experience we did both, especially in group tours, we would have the principal lead the group tour, and that's when you really have to think about your elevator pitch.

What's different about your school?

How do you set yourself apart?

You know?

And I think that's the thing where most people are like, oh, you know, we're a Catholic school, you know, a lot of the stuff, but how is your school different?

I know there's a lot of buzzwords like, oh, we're a stem school, we're a arts and drama school, but what does that really mean?

So when you have a room full of parents, at your tour, like what do you say to them in like the first, you know, first five minutes, you know, what will capture their attention?

Then after the the group session, we usually break them up into smaller groups where we have eighth graders or seventh graders lead the school tour.

And those are the best parts where parents come back to me and say, oh, that's so nice.

You have student lead the tours and they, and sometimes they feel more comfortable asking students questions like, oh, hey, is there bullying?

Did you.

You know, are the kids nice?

Are you able to make friends?

And I think that's one of the biggest part of why parents bring their schools bring their children to Catholic school.

It's like, Hey, we know it's gonna be, you know, academics gonna be much rigorous or higher expectation to hire, but is my child gonna be able to make friends?

Are these, you know, families or kids?

Are my kids gonna be able to make friends with, you know, all the other kids, you know, you know, just having the same values and whatnot.

And they always ask like, oh, do you like the school lunches?

It's always about the school lunches and the, they're great, but give honest feedback.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, it's important to, to translate that feeling of you belong here.

Right?

Or if you really are trying to set yourself apart and, letting folks that like, who don't share those values, let 'em know that it's not the place.

Because I, I think, I think that's a product of now that we didn't see before.

I mean, when there was a waiting list at every school, I think they, they did pick and choose and, you know, based on what, what situation is.

But I think what we're into the case now, it's like, you know.

At this point, they're coming to the school and they're, they're, they're taking their like star test to see if they're on par with whatever.

And it doesn't really matter what the star test says because they're like, you're in, if you can afford to be here.

Right?

Because they're just so, they're just looking for bodies.

But you know, there is you want to be.

Open and transparent about like, this is what it's like to be here and you should wanna be a part of that because we're an awesome school.

But if you don't like what we're about, then you know, maybe some other places better for you.

That's only gonna save you trouble down the road, right?

But if you cannot articulate what makes you awesome, why would somebody wanna be there?

Why would a family want to be here?

How could they see themselves?

In that way, if you can't articulate that, then yeah, you're, you're really in trouble.

Right.

So I I, it's so important to be able to get that across to people.

Like, Hey, we want you here.

These are the things that we do.

This is how we do it, and I hope that you like it.

And if you don't, that's okay.

You know, don't invite, you know, trouble just because, you know, people aren't happy because they thought they were getting one thing and they end up with something else.

And so it's much, I think it's much better.

To say this is who we are, this is how we do things.

You know, however you translate that to them.

But that be accurate because a lot of times it's flowery language or those presentations that they do on these tours.

Are not accurate, right.

It's a game.

And you know, I've even been in conversations where principals are talking with each other about the game that they're playing in order to get students to enroll.

And that's, you know, you don't want to be a part of that kind of game, but you do want to be able to show your school in the best light possible.

Because they're, you want them not just to sign up now, but to be there, you know, for.

Nine, 10 years, whatever, how long it is.

And to be able to be the agents of the next group becoming like, hey you know, they have a second kid maybe, or they have somebody on their block and they're like, you should come.

This is a great place.

You want to be here.

You know?

And if, if you're being transparent and showing all the beauty and some of those wrinkles, you know, some of those wrinkles we gotta hide.

But, you know, if you guys, you know, be true about what you're presenting.

Then I think you're gonna win.

But I think a lot of the things we talked about today are all about building that relationship and making sure that you're taking them through.

Now I know, you know, there's lots of really practical ideas that we can do with some of these things that are, are kind of different, but it's all about the personalization.

How can you make them feel like they belong there and that they should want to be there?

And.

It does take a little bit more energy.

That might take some energy from the principal of the office staff.

You know, the teachers maybe have to put on a little bit more of a show that day.

You might have to get some parents involved in order to sell that, but it's all worth it because if you get those kids that's, you know, a 10 year commitment, nine year commitment and that's, that's what we're after here.

It's, I think it's so important to be able to take this process a little bit more intentionally, a little more deliberately, and make sure that you're ushering in these new families as best you can.

Because if you don't, the alternative is nobody's coming.

And the word on the street is that.

Nobody should be coming.

Right?

It reminds me of like a empty restaurant versus a full restaurant.

People don't wanna go to an empty restaurant, you know?

They wanna see it like thriving.

Lots of kids in the classroom, they're happy.

And I know some of the things we talk about, it seems overwhelming, especially for the front office staff where like, oh, great, I have to make another phone call.

There's.

10, 20 people, you know, on the tour now have to give them all a call.

But keep in mind, a lot of these things can be automated, whether it's just like a, an interest form that you put online or just signing up for open house.

We can, you can always set automatic email reminders or just automated.

A lot of these things can be automated after the open house or after school tour.

You could just set a automated email.

You know, even when someone sits in the lobby, you know, you might hand them an iPad, go, oh, here, fill this out.

Just to sign in.

They, you can automate like, oh, thanks for coming for a tour.

Just have a quick link to the application.

You know, something as simple as that, you know?

Yeah.

It's easy to set up systems like that where.

You know, one, seven days after tour, send this, 14 days after tour, send this, and so on and so forth.

You know, all kinds of little triggers.

And that's of course something that we can help anybody out with.

But those aren't very difficult things to get going.

What is difficult is the intentionality of like, what is it that we want to say in the, you know, seven days.

14 days?

What is it we're trying to portray?

And I think that's where the hard work.

Has to happen, but it's so worth it.

'cause otherwise we're schools all be closed.

It's too bad because a lot of the schools that I visit, all these great things are happening, but they think it's normal.

And I was like, you should.

Tell people about this.

You know, I just, this week our teacher stop to talk to me and go, oh, hey, look at all this artwork.

And it was a second through fifth grade art project.

They made flowers from paper plates, and you can see the creativity and variation.

And the art teacher was saying like, oh, I just gave them a few tips, but I didn't tell them exactly how to do it.

What's really nice is that they decorate at the front, the hallway before you enter the front office as like a welcome sign for parents or anyone just walking through.

I'm like, those are simple things that are free.

It makes your school beautiful and welcoming and inviting.

You know, it's like, oh.

A lot of things don't have to cost a lot.

It's just, again, like you said, intention.

You know?

What does it look like when someone walks into your school?

Is it inviting, you know, or is it like there's trash cans everywhere as soon as you walk in, you know, is there a smell?

Just like little things.

Yeah, if you, and if you get the, you know, we talk about this in other situations, but you get that either that parent who's always critical or you
get the, you know, the kind of naysayer, like those are the people you wanna walk through just as much as the people who are in your camp, right?

And be like, what do you see?

Or, and somebody who's, doesn't have a kid somebody who's not related, like, you know, get a friend or somebody else who can walk through that process and be like, what do you see here?

You know, and it, you don't have to spend a ton of money to try to figure this stuff out.

It's fairly obvious in most cases, and people will point that out to you if you have asked.

But those little simple steps, and, you know, it doesn't require gifts, you know, in a lot of case the gift, you know, folks will have the pencils or whatever, and it's like, great.

Whatcha gonna do with that pencil?

Now, you know, it's it just has to be.

An intentional thing, like this is something we talked about.

You know, we want you to, to be a part of that.

And, you know, knowing that they're gonna look at a bunch of other schools, you know, being intentional about what you're presenting and the thought process between all that is, is really gonna be the thing that dis distinguishes you because ultimately like.

Everyone's gonna sell the fact that, oh, our academics are amazing.

Our kids get into high school.

Well, yeah, because you know, you've got smart families with smart kids who are going through your school.

They're gonna get into high school.

Okay?

And you're gonna be nice to them.

'cause you're that's your job is to be nice to people.

You know?

Like at some point we're all dealing with the same.

Same kind of thing.

Mm-hmm.

But, you know, being able to talk about your secret sauce and being able to share that to look at those little individual things and to be very intentional about it is, it's really simple.

It does take some effort.

It does take some time.

But if that.

If that process is not worth your intention or time, then the next 10 years aren't worth their time and that's where you lose.

So I think it's so important that we, that we take this and think about each of these steps, how can we improve it?

And maybe you can't do it all at once, but maybe you can do a little bit of it.

And I really like that you mentioned getting feedback from an outsider or I would say if you don't have anyone to ask, ask an eighth grader, Hey, can you go on the website, see if you could sign up for a tour.

Just prompt them.

Don't tell them how to do it, and just get some feedback like, Hey, was it easy?

Would've been, you know, where would you put it so that it's easy to find, like, Hey, fill out this application.

Was it easy?

Were you able to do it?

How long did it take you?

Just simple things like that.

You can just make adjustments, just moving a button higher up in the center, something you know, just have someone outside of the school or someone that's not, you know.

Just a parent could, you can even ask the teacher like, oh, hey, can you just take a look at the website?

What can we do to make it easier for someone to apply to our school or even get their foot into the door?

You know?

Yeah.

So simple.

So simple.

Okay, so as we're getting close to our time here, I want to ask you if if there's one thing that you would say that, you know, anybody who's listening to this should be doing.

Like, what's the first thing or what's the, what's an easy step that they can get?

Kind of a bigger win out of?

Oh, easy step.

Again, take a look at your website.

Is it obvious?

Can you just look at it and click a button?

And I would say definitely follow up.

You know, when someone does apply to anything, they just want a tour.

They, it's just an interest form.

How quickly do you respond to it?

I think that's really important because as you know, I'm really good at answering emails at all sorts of time, and people are always grateful, like, oh, you answer emails at whatever time.

Send someone the email, you know, give them a call.

You know, something to include on your interest form is like, what is their preference for communication?

Some people might not like a phone call 'cause you're calling them in the middle of their work or their job.

You know.

Just find out, do they prefer texts?

Do they prefer a phone call?

Do they prefer email?

Like communication is key.

You know, get them the information so that they don't struggle and say, oh, you know, whatever.

I'd never heard back.

You know?

Then of course, they're not gonna apply to your score.

They're not gonna take their time out of their workday to come for a tour.

You know what I think people should do is, you know, invite us to your school.

Get a fresh pair of eyes to see like, hey, what's, you know, what are some things you can improve?

What's great that's even better point out like, oh, I really like this.

You know, having someone outside of the school doesn't, you know, see the everyday things.

They might be able to tell you like, oh yeah, you know, Hey, your website.

Needs this or like your entrance might, you know, just need a quick sign here or there.

I take it a step further and one of the things that we love to do is we love to go visit other schools, right?

And most of these schools that we're visiting aren't gonna be our clients.

So as a principal, if you're gonna go visit schools that aren't necessarily your competition.

There's plenty of people who would be happy to show their schools.

And when you walk into somebody else's school, you notice all of those things, right?

You can't see it in your own school, but you notice in somebody else's school right away, good, bad, and ugly.

So, you know, go see more schools.

And if not, you can always bring us in.

We'll do the, we'll do that work for you.

I know we'd love to take field trips.

People like to invite us, like, come check out my school.

That's the best part of our job, I think, is to be able to see, you know, the, the real joy of what we've, we're been part of schools all this time because we love schools, right?

And so to see that good happening and to see what cool things people are doing is really the whole reason for this podcast.

I mean, we really just want see what are all those Catholic schools doing out there?

What cool things are they doing?

So I think it's great that that we get a chance to do that, and I think I wish more people would take that opportunity.

Oh yeah, definitely.

It's like the best, it's like the best part of our day just to check out all the other schools and all the great things they're doing.

How about you?

What's your One thing?

My one thing is I would really be really be intentional about the, as you're saying, you know, follow up.

Where can we.

Support people through this process.

Where can we invite them to things that are happening at our school?

I think if we look at the high schools and the way that they promote themselves, they often have, you know, here's a video of what we're, this was what makes us beautiful.

I'm not saying you have to make a video, but you know, you should know that answer, and then they invite you to everything.

So depending on the time of the year.

How can we help them through this process and how can we invite them to things?

Low hanging fruit, how can we invite them to things so they can kind of get a bigger glimpse into what, what we're doing?

And if you are welcoming in that way, even if they never show up, but you have, you know, especially in a small environment like a K eight school.

Your personal invite to, we have a play coming up.

We'd love to save you a seat for that.

Or our festival's coming up.

I'd love to give you a pass for that.

You know, whatever the event is.

We're having mass on Friday, we'd love for you to come join us at mass, whatever it may be.

Like, I mean, come on, there's definitely room in the church and it's free admission.

So, you know, where can we have some more touch points where the people feel like they're welcoming?

And that's my one thing to folks and I think if you've, you know, kind of thought that process through, what is the journey that this parent's gonna take between the time that they find out about us to the time that they are one of our students.

If we can just be intentional about that, invite them to things that make them fully understand what it's like to be at our school.

I think we're gonna win.

I think we'll win more than than usual.

So, that's our challenge to everybody.

Thank you for joining us today.

We're happy that you came to, to listen, and if you'd like to talk about any of these tips or you need help putting some of those triggers together, we'd love to help you out with that.

But you know, go out there and improve that process and get more students into your school.

You know, your school deserves it, you deserve it, and it's not that much trouble.

So thank you Becky, for joining me.

I appreciate as always, your wisdom and experience and we'll see you on the next episode.

Okay.

Bye bye.

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